Lauren Kordalski (00:03):

We ready to press play?

Hung Lee (00:07):

Absolutely. Go ahead, Joe.

Lauren Kordalski (00:08):

Let's do it.

Video Player (00:15):

You wake up a champion of talent. This is your walk up music. This is your red carpet. This is your arena. It beckons you with the same persistent call. Find me the ones who can't be found. The hidden gems and unseen successes, the people who will create the future. You could let someone else do it, but you won't. You could crumble under the weight of a million unread resumes, yet you persist because you know the truth. It's not a war for talent, it's a celebration, a coronation. Finding the future of work isn't a burden. We'd like to extend you the offer, but a blessing. And you are at the center of it all. The person behind the people, the champion of talent, and we are the champion of you.

Hung Lee (02:02):

Maybe a round of applause right there. Wasn't that an amazing video, folks? I have to say I don't think I've ever seen a a a piece of media so beautifully produced about the the work we do. and one of the things that really excited me about getting involved in this project with with paradox was this is the first time I think anybody has been centering recruiters into the recruiting framework. When we're talking about experience, we talk about candidate experience, we talk about hiring manager experience. We rarely talk about the experience that recruiters have. and yet when you think about it, if recruiters are having a bad time, it's very difficult for anybody else to have a good time. Because what we touched so many people with, when we're involved in this recruiting flow, I think it's impossible for us to give great candidate experience if we are not in the right conditions to do well. So it's really my pleasure to be with you here today. Quick introductions. My name is Hung Lee. I edit and curate a newsletter called Recruiting Brain Food. And I'm gonna be interviewing our champions of talent. And this is the first interview I'm going to be doing and who else to do it with other than the director of Talent acquisition at Paradox. So it's Lauren Kordalski. So Lauren, great to see you and and great to join you on this conversation.

Lauren Kordalski (03:40):

Well, thank you for having me, and I'm really excited about this series and honored to be kicking it off with you. And thank you for the introduction. As Hung said, I'm director of talent acquisition here at Paradox, and part of what brought me to Paradox was the fact that we do champion the champions of talent and and serve candidates. So I'm excited to have this conversation with you and thanks to everyone who's joining us here today.

Hung Lee (04:12):

Amazing. I just wonder whether Joe still, is this still screen being shared, Joe? Cause you may not wanna keep that up there, if that's the case. Not to say our faces are any better, at least mine is not. But it's a more conventional way to run a webinar to have us up there. So Laura, let's start with sort of the kernel of this idea. First of all you know, we are — recruiters — generally very selfless. We're very mission focused. We're in there, you know, we don't put our needs at the top. We often feel bad to actually even think that our needs actually are part of the equation. Why do you think that is? And why do you think that's necessary to correct that assumption?

Lauren Kordalski (05:03):

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think most people get into recruiting because they have that sort of selfless, empathetic personality. And I, at least personally speaking, know that's the case for many of our clients. And so I think the focus, as you had mentioned earlier, has been so much on the candidates and the hiring manager experience. And I think sometimes the recruiters get lost in that. And sometimes, I know for teams it feels like people just show up and all of a sudden we have new coworkers, but it gets forgotten. And all of the hard work that goes into getting those candidates and filling those roles for hiring managers. And so I think the recruiters tend to be the unsung heroes. But they're so important, obviously, in creating that candidate experience and hiring manager experience and filling those roles. So I love that we're calling them out. It's so well deserved. And that's why we're here hosting — you know calling out the champions of talent through this video and this series.

Hung Lee (06:19):

Yeah, fantastic. Recruiting is one of those roles. I think that it is possible to be optimally maxed out all the time. because there's always one more call, there's always another candidate to get in pipeline. Yes, there's another outreach thing you can do. There's, if you have 25 hours in a day, it's quite possible to do 25 hours worth of recruiting work. Am I right folks? You let me know whether you think that's the case. <laugh> You know, by the way, I'm sure you sort of zoomed before, so this is not trying to teach you all, but check out the the features at the bottom of the screen. You should be able to access those things. If you wanna ask question to Lauren, please do so. If you wanna ask about how to build a better recruiter experience please use that q and a function.

(07:07):

And of course there should be a chat function that you can use as well — talk to each other as well. So if you've got any thoughts that you wanna contribute mid flow, make sure you make use of that as well. Okay. Lauren, how is you as a leader of a recruiting department of a company that's scaling up rapidly — you could say, "I want my team to optimally maximize the work they do." How do you pull it back to say, "You know what? I need to like almost create slack into the workflow of my team. Otherwise they're gonna be burnt out." How do you as a leader avoid the temptation of just constantly running the horses at maximum tilt?

Lauren Kordalski (07:51):

Yeah, I'm gonna tie it back to the video, just before I answer that question, and share just some background. So our team really weighed in on the reality of the recruiter experience to create that video and kudos to the marketing team for looping us in. And we basically said like — make it more chaotic. Make it like it doesn't ever stop. Make Faye — who is the actress — wake up and check her phone and be on her laptop before she goes to bed, because that's kind of the reality, right? We can leverage technology to better enable recruiters to have more free time to speak with candidates. But at the end of the day, it's a human experience. And the candidates that we're working with and the hiring managers that we're working with are going to need stuff after hours. We're talking to candidates who are working jobs during the day, and so we're meeting with them after dinner, after they've put their kids to bed or early in the morning.

(08:48):

I know I've been on a really early call to talk to somebody in your neck of the woods. And so at the end of the day, there's still going to be that — I don't wanna use the word burden — but recruiters are still going to feel that stretch thin in some ways. But to answer your question more directly, I think there's steps that we can take to mitigate that. And that comes down to automation, equipping our team with better technology, and allowing them to focus on high value activity. The reason why we all got into recruiting, which is to actually speak with candidates. And that's what brings us to the talent industry, and that's what fills our cup. And so if we can take some of that burden off of recruiters, I think that's the ultimate goal. And there's still a lot of work to do there.

Hung Lee (09:42):

There is, and I think technology has helped in, in some respects because it has removed a lot of the the, the, the, the administrative work for sure. The, the potential is certainly there to do it. The risks that we have though is that the excess time that we achieve the savings that we, we achieve, we, we end up just loading the recruiter up with more wrecks. I'll, I'll be interested to know whether the wreck load has actually gone up as the admin load goes down. And that's something we've gotta monitor as well, isn't it? Because if you think about the numbers of vacancies that we're dealing with, the more vacancies that we're dealing with, the less sort of time per candidate that we have with them. And that's exactly the sort of higher value work that, you know, I think the candidates not only appreciate, but these days demand you know, the, the modern candidate is no longer a person that is satisfied with, you know, the experience that they had even 12 months or so ago. sure the elevation is right up there. So, you know, for us to really perform our, our roles effectively, we really need to almost, you know, rethink how much time we're dedicating on a per candidate basis. but you're right to kind of look at the, the, the core of that video, just, you got me to remind me actually, a couple of scenes that definitely got me was the, the quick screenshot of the, the busy calendar. You know when you saw it was like no white space <laugh> in the calendar, like completely,

Lauren Kordalski (11:11):

I have to tell you, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but that it, we actually show the marketing team our calendars. And so that is a real look at the talent team at Paradox's calendars. And, and because our team is, is so organized type A, we have them color coordinated based on the type of meeting that they are. Which by the way, for anyone listening I found is a great way to keep organized. but that is actually taken from, that was inspired by our team's calendars. So I know for many of you, that probably feels like a reality and it certainly is for us.

Hung Lee (11:45):

What's your thoughts on having like, deliberate blank time within the diary? Do you think that's feasible thing to do in the, the job that we do as recruiters?

Lauren Kordalski (11:55):

I think it's, it's very important to do what I, I find actually that, you know, 15 minutes between meetings or interviews is, is almost counterproductive for me cuz it's not enough time to get anything done. But I think including big chunks is really important because we talk about the interview experience, the candidate experience. So how, how do they find the organization, the interview experience for the candidate? What I think sometimes get lost gets lost is all of the stuff in between. So recruiters are focused on reigning in hiring managers, getting their availability, communicating with candidates to create that positive experience, following up with candidates about next steps or about not moving forward. And all of that work takes time and thought and care, and it's important to creating that positive candidate experience. So to answer your question in a long-winded way, I clearly feel passionately about having some blocks of time on your calendar so you can get that, get that really important work done.

Hung Lee (12:56):

Yeah, I mean, how much of our, how much of the calendar is based in interrupt as well is another way to think about sort of what's going into the calendar, how much is it actually something that the team or the individual recruiter has wanted to put in there or has been slammed in there by somebody else, you know? And it's like that in itself, it can, your level of stress I think can be determined by that, that measure. How much of that calendar is yours and how much is someone else imposing their, their, their demands on you.

Lauren Kordalski (13:25):

Yeah, absolutely. That is, that's a great point. and it's convenient that we have the ability to do that, but I also think it's important to kind of take control of your calendar whenever possible. and so I love the idea of creating those blocks. Is that something that you do as well?

Hung Lee (13:43):

Oh, yeah. I mean, I just don't take meetings anymore. I mean I I mean I've got, I've got a, I've got a different life now, but yeah, I'm just like relentlessly hostile to meetings because I've, I've discovered that the people that really enjoy meetings are the ones that actually are the ones pushing work to the people that really don't enjoy meetings, right? So there's another way to think about it in the sense that if you are a type of person that embraces having, oh yeah, great, I've got 10 zoom meetings there, you are probably the person dispersing work to all those poor people you are in a room with. Whereas if you are thinking, oh my goodness, here's another thing in my, in my that I have to attend, chances are you've got other stuff to do. and this person is simply imposing on you to do more stuff.

(14:25):

So it's almost like you've gotta say default no, which is so hard to do in recruiting as well, from the sort of trajectory of, of the history of where recruiting has come from, we've generally been service provision is, is our, in our, if you like, institutional dna, we, we think of ourselves as providers supports the business, don't we folks? Yeah. don't you think of yourself as a business partner, sometimes a talent partner, maybe you, you call and you're thinking whatever the, the business says, I'm gonna deliver to that. Well, guess what? If that's your mentality, they're gonna keep asking you to do stuff and it, you know, sometimes that stuff is not what you should be doing. how do you empower you, your, your team to say no to a business request, Lauren? Is that something you can teach people? Or, or what was your thoughts?

Lauren Kordalski (15:15):

Yeah, I'm glad that you asked that because as you were as you were talking, I was thinking it, you can actually reframe it as a responsibility to the candidate. You're holding yourself accountable to the candidates, to keeping your schedule free for those interviews. And then also in doing so, you're meeting the business needs. So you're actually serving the business by being really thoughtful about how you spend your time. and so I think that's that's the way to frame it when perhaps you're saying no to those meetings. also, I mean, I think it's important to come with an agenda. What is the purpose of this conversation? And really be thoughtful about how you're spending your time, because I know all the recruiters on here know that time is precious and we have to be really thoughtful about making sure we're spending it in the right places, because ultimately that's allowing us to, to do our jobs more, more successfully.

Hung Lee (16:12):

Do you, have you developed any, like, rules of thumb for yourself on this, Lauren? Like you, things that you've thought, you know what, there's always gonna be people demanding something, right? So if you say yes to everything, again, we're back to the 24 hour day type of thing. but are there rules of thumb where you say, you know what, I've got Tuesday and Thursdays, I'm not gonna say yes to these types of things and I'll, I'll, I'll carve out, you know, Friday morning, I'll say yes to a few things, or maybe run an open hours or something where you say yes to everything. so

Lauren Kordalski (16:43):

It's certainly an area of opportunity. I've gotten a more disciplined over time, and I think if somebody, if there's a meeting on my calendar, I like to ask, Hey, what are we, what are we meeting about? Do I need to prepare anything? I just really wanna make sure that I'm making the most of my time. So I think I fall somewhere in between. and you make such a good point about recruiters being the, we're the support system to our, our business. We are serving all of these different business units. We're working alongside people who might be they're, they're, they might have no bandwidth specifically because we haven't been able to fill a role or us as the talent team haven't been able to fill a role. So it's this heavy responsibility. so to, so to answer your question, I mean, I think that's something that is probably an error of opportunity and I've gotten better at better at it over time.

Hung Lee (17:39):

So we've talked about business, we've talked about like the control of time in visually in terms of the, the calendar. Also, another area where I think recruiter experience can really be tough is the sense of ambiguity. Because like, there's, there's so many variables in the role, isn't there that determine whether we have a happy day or not. <laugh>, you know, it's like, is that perfect candidate actually gonna say yes to the job? That's a classic one, right? Where you think, you know what, we just need this to close. or there'll be some scenario where we think that we, we, we can't find sort of the right kind. We know the hiring manager has these types of demands, we can't find it, and we, everything we're trying does work. All of these things. Ambiguities. How do you, how do we kind of help recruiters handle ambiguity better? Or do you think that this may just be like an like a crib skill? You know, there's certain people that can just handle the variability in the little bit of the chaos, or like, can you, can we train some sort of mental skills that way, you know, someone can get better at this.

Lauren Kordalski (18:47):

Yeah, I will. and I, I just, I love that you mentioned the, like, will they or won't they accept the offer? There's a lot of emotion that goes into the recruiter experience. And just seeing that in the video really spoke to me and hopefully spoke to many folks on this call because it, there really are so many highs and lows in the recruiting industry. And in terms of ambiguity, I mean, I think there's always going to be some of that in recruiting. And also speak personally in that when I joined Paradox, we were completely a startup. We were about 15 people, such a small company, as you would imagine. There was a lot of ambiguity for the first couple weeks. I was like a deer in headlights. It it was not pretty. but I would say that now I still I still like a little bit of structure and we have that at this point, but I've gotten so much more comfortable with ambiguity.

(19:47):

So I don't, I don't know if that's the case for everybody, but I think with time you can become more comfortable. And I also think that's something that's always gonna be a reality in our in our industry because yes, we're looking, you know, for specific roles, we're looking for hard skills, but there's also soft skills. And with new res, what you're looking for changes and evolves over time. Like there's no, this isn't math, there's no right, right answer. And so I think that ambiguity is just innately part of of the work that we do. And I'm so impressed with the recruiters who can thrive in that environment because we have to continue to be flexible to the, to the needs of the team and of the business and of the candidates. and so I guess to answer your question, I think I think it probably helps coming into the industry with comfort in that type of environment. But I also think over time you can become more comfortable and perhaps create some structure around your work and like what the business is looking for in order to, to maybe close that gap for some of some people who like a little bit more direction.

Hung Lee (21:07):

Yeah. And I think also sort of one of the things that has worked for me in the past when, you know, things are ambiguous. I've, I've, I've kind of worked out my own sort of times when I get like super stressed and it's almost always when I, the, the outcome is not sure, and I don't know what's happening from outside. It's, it's, it's the focus on what you can actually control and just do that. you know, if you've done everything you can, and it's like a decision to be made in a classic example is a yes no decision on here, but there's all kinds of ambiguities that might have a similar impact. but you can't dwell on that situation. You can't control go ahead and do something that you can control, and that will actually help your mental health somewhat because you're doing something where you can, you know, I do this and I get an output here, and I can predict and control that no matter how big or small that is.

(21:57):

that is gonna help you get over that moment, and then you can move on to the next piece. another area which you intimated sort of, you just re sort of completely referred to there Lauren was the, an essential, like unpredictably of resource required for a role. one of the things that the, the recruiting profession is, I think, unique at is that it's so hard to forecast the amount of effort required to hire a rule. you might have hired a role and like for someone gives you a requirement Lauren, you don't know whether it's gonna take you two hours to fill that or maybe two years. Like you literally, none of us know, right? Until you try. So at that sense of lack of being able to figure out how much effort you're gonna commit to something, and you still gotta say yes to it again, what's your, what's, how do you, how do you do that? How do you prioritize the work? How, how do you, you know, what's your, what's your intuition tell you is the best way to, to handle that particular circumstance?

Lauren Kordalski (23:01):

Yeah, it's such a good question, and that is, that is the reality. And over the past couple of years especially, it's the industry has been changing so much. I know when Covid happened, there was a lot of layoffs, unfortunately, that happened, and then it was a candidate market, and now we're seeing some layoffs again. I I personally haven't seen that much change in the recruiting industry since I've been in it. And so it feels like there's an added layer of ambiguity because things are changing so quickly. so to answer your question, I mean, I think that's where, where the skill of being flexible in that ambiguous environment is helpful. So we go in with a plan and sometimes we have to change the plan. if we're not getting, you know, enough we have to be flexible. If we're not getting enough candidates, okay, how do we ramp up recruitment marketing if we're not getting quality candidates? Okay, let's, let's take a look at the qualifications that we're looking for and where we're posting for those jobs. I think recruiting is always just a little bit of trial and error and adjusting as needed and leveraging the technology, the team, the tools that we have in order to do so.

Hung Lee (24:20):

Yeah, it's tango, isn't it? It's tango. Like, you have to get close, you gotta close the gap between what's happening internally and externally because it's from sort of your contact with the market that gives you that sense that this is the next move. it isn't something that you could just, you know, sit away in your box and design and think, right, this is how much it's gonna take. No, you gotta get in there and start speaking with all of these candidates, get that sort of sense as to what, what they're talking about to give you a little bit more confidence as to how to predict and forecast the effort are required. let me ask you a tougher question, if I may, Lauren. and I hope I, the reason why I ask it is I think a lot of people might actually have this circumstance. do you remember a time in your leadership where you've encountered, let's say, a team member or a colleague that you found was particularly struggling and, you know, having the worst experience? and, and if, if, if you have, like, how did you know, and, and what did you do about that, that to help that person and to to alleviate that situation?

Lauren Kordalski (25:30):

Yeah, I will say, I think recruiters are a tough bunch. We get into this industry because we love people, and it feels so good to help fill roles and see, and see the people that you hire, growth in the organization. And as we discussed before, often we're burning the candle at both ends and kind of feel like, all right, this is, this is what we have to do. This is, it's a level of of care that's driving the, the effort that they put in. And sometimes you hit a wall, we're running so hard, there's always new roles that we're filling. It's like, yes, we hired for this position. Okay, like we saw in the video, okay, I need you to post a new role. This is where your focus is going to be now. So I think it's, it's probably quite common.

(26:23):

And we've seen it I've seen it personally and probably felt that personally on my team before. I think the important piece is being, being able to share that feeling comfortable to say, Hey, I need some help. I'm drowning here. and then I think at that point, there's a number of, of things we can do, right? And that's sometimes where we turn to technology. Okay, are there so you say you're getting hundreds of candidates, but aren't filling aren't finding the right quality. How can we get the right candidates in front of you? How can we change that experience? So instead of going through hundreds of candidates that might not be a right fit, how can we highlight the candidates that that might be and make sure that you're spending your time on candidates that align with what you're looking for.

(27:12):

So I think technology is one piece. Also, resource allocation, like you said before, we never know how long it's gonna take to fill a role. So I think doing a pulse check on the rest of the team and seeing if they have the bandwidth is helpful as well. And of course, recruiters being as awesome as they are, I think many people are willing and able to step up and help there. and then just being thoughtful too about the business needs. Okay, we're hiring for these roles. Is this really where our focus should be? And maybe adjusting some prioritization there as well, because we're, we're hiring for roles across different functions of the organization. Ev not everybody knows what's on the recruiting team's plate. And, and rightfully so. All of these different functions probably feel like this is the most important role, this is a priority, maybe kind of level setting. and prioritizing those roles and, and sharing what's on the recruiting team's plate, I think could be a helpful conversation to have as well. We're, we're in a really unique position where we're working with all of these functions across an organization who might probably don't, don't know about the priorities of the others. It's an in, it's an interesting position for many reasons.

Hung Lee (28:26):

You know, what, that in itself, I think is a really interesting concept because I think, again, it's in our cultural DNA to probably not share that information as widely as we could in the sense that, you know, the information typically just goes in one direction. Business gifts to recruiters, recruiters go ahead to the market and try and fill those roles. and I don't think as a, as an industry, we, we don't seem to be perfect, let's say or optimal in sharing back to the rest of the business saying, okay, here's what all the stuff we're working on, and here's where the progress, here's the things. And then, as you say, letting product know what the sort of, what we're doing for marketing, what marketing know what we're doing for sales, and what sales tell 'em what we're doing for engineering and so on.

(29:12):

and that's not just to, you know, that's not just internal pr, that's just some stuff that, to give them additional context so that they know what is going on in the bigger picture. Because if we're not able to provide that context, guess what folks, people, you're really gonna introduce their own sort of assumptions as to what's going on. And, you know, you can't blame them for that. You've gotta give them the, the information that you have. So, you know, that's interesting. Lauren, you kinda, in that position where you've seen sort of paradox grow up, you've helped paradox grow and, and you've, you, you've had the chance, I guess, to institute some of these policies to make sure these things happen. what would you say, how would you, how would you do it in a different sort of circumstance if, for instance, you joined a different business that was more mature, that already had some of these all cultural legacy things behind, how would you go ahead and start introducing, okay, we need to actually increase the visibility of TA within the, within, internally, within the business. do you have any sort of suggestions for the audience here?

Lauren Kordalski (30:16):

Yeah, that's a good question. And I think that's something that we're always working with our clients. Change is hard, it's uncomfortable, and it takes a lot of work. And I think part of the reason why there are some constraints, roadblocks in the industry is because we're using technology, we're using old systems. Like this is the, this is the way it is. And I feel really fortunate that I joined par. I've never recruited without Olivia. So I've joined Paradox and have been spoiled. So to answer your, your, your question, it's, it's hard for me to imagine just personally recruiting without the technology that we have here. but to answer your question, I think it goes back to what we just discussed, kind of looping in other members of the organization, sharing the importance of the work that we do in ta and gaining buy-in.

(31:19):

because ultimately if we introduce new technology, new process, this is how it's going to impact your part of, that's your part of the business, here's how we're gonna help you fill roles and then be more successful within your, the function of your organization. So I think a lot of times it's just gaining that buy-in. And then of course, I don't wanna negate all of the work that it takes to implement a new system or a new process. There's a lot of emotion and hard work that goes into that. But I think with time, that's probably something that, that can be accomplished. And and I know it's something that our team does every day for, for with our clients.

Hung Lee (31:57):

Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, let's talk about all that stuff on the client side actually learn. Because again, it seems that you've got a really kind of unique position. You, you're, you're, you're, you're leading your own TA team within a business so you, you're doing network. but at the same time, of course, paradox are are supplier that, that the recruiters and you, you're intimate with how sort of the employer challenges there are also is there sort of can you give us a decent example of where technology has had a, a significant impact on recruiter experience with the customer base? you know, where there has been a time saving or where, you know, they have recruited without Olivia, you know, yeah. Damn fools have actually recruited without Olivia before and you know, gone with Paradox and suddenly it's happened. I mean, can you give us sort of walk through a journey? You've had one of these customers

Lauren Kordalski (32:56):

Yeah. Abs absolutely. And it's funny you mentioned it's, it's sort of a unique position. Our talent team jokes that it can be very hard explaining to family, friends, what we do, because we work at a talent team for an HR tech company that serves recruiting and TA leaders. So it's kind of feels a little bit meta. and sometimes we have to take a step back and it really explain to people the, the work that we do. So it is a really interesting position to be in, but one that's really cool and we have so many case studies and client stories on, on our website, but one thing that really stands out to me, and it was in, it was in the slides that we flipped through earlier, was Houston Methodist who shared a statistic with us that 88% of interviews were scheduled the same day as an application, which is incredible and, and almost unheard of.

(33:53):

and I, I will say that's the experience that, that I had, I had a really unique experience and introduction to paradox where I applied, I interviewed and I started on the same in the same week. Excuse me, it wasn't the same day. but that was an incredible introduction to the organization because I was immediately bought in and felt like this organization cared about my time. And then also I saw the power of the product. So to see that that's been the same experience. I mean, even faster for Houston Methodist is incredible. and let's, I know we're focused on the recruiter experience and I'll talk about that in a moment, but how impactful for a candidate to apply for a job and then hear back and schedule an interview the same day, where I know on LinkedIn we'll see stories of people hearing back months or years even later. And so I think that's just an incredibly impactful statistic, one that sets the candidates up for I mean, you're, you're starting their experience with a really positive impact. And then on the recruiter's side, you might go home for the evening send out a bunch of scheduling requests and come in the next day and have a ton of interviews on your calendar. How awesome that Olivia is filling your time with what I would say are important meetings. and if you have to reschedule some of those unimportant meetings, then so be it.

Hung Lee (35:22):

No, I think that's absolutely right. And by the way, folks, the evidence is in on this, like the one, the key component for candidate experience is responsiveness. the, the, the stuff that candidates really dislike is, again, this ambiguity I've applied what now I've got this other thing that I don't really like, but they're moving faster. I mean, you know, that, that type of feeling. So, you know, that's a horrible scenario for this person who, you know, may be making a really important decision, but there's no visibility or there's no pace, there's no, there's not timely enough. so there's no question that these types of were very close to solving some of these information, the inform recruiting logistics is very close to, to being solved for, which is, you know, great to see this this evolution of technology to where it's at.

(36:20):

now. so going onto the, this project Lauren, going back to the beginning, I guess were you, can you tell us like when this started, so we all get it, that, you know, recruiters are not necessarily respected per se, and certainly not recognized in, in terms of the effort we put in the experience we talked about again, but most companies don't do anything about it. We don't think about, let's try and elevate the industry. can you take, take us through sort of why this became a thing and, and why, why, why it's, why it's now, you know, a campaign or hopefully a movement.

Lauren Kordalski (36:57):

Yeah. And I'll say it's because of some of the reasons you just listed. We wanted to tell recruiters, we see you and we hear you, and we so value the work that, that you do. We work with clients every day who are changing people's lives. I mean, if you think about it, you're helping people get, that's why I feel, so I could go on a tangent about this, but that's why I feel so passionately about the industry. You're helping people get jobs, and we've all felt the excitement of getting a new job and and shared in that with our family and friends, it's, it's really impactful. And then having recruiting has a direct impact on the business. I, I think about, you know, businesses that had to, and I think we all probably saw this businesses closed down or had to shorten their hours or posted signs that said, please be patient.

(37:54):

We're short staffed. And that is it's gut wrenching. It's really sad to see the impact of, of being short staffed, of not filling roles. And so bringing it back I think we sometimes forget the people who are, who are making that happen, who are impacting the business and helping them grow and scale, and allowing them to serve their clients and customers. It has this domino effect the work that we do. So, a long winded answer to say, recruiters are so important. They're, I'm gonna say it again, they're the un unsung heroes, and we really wanted to showcase that. And and let those folks let you know, those on the call or talent professionals know that we see you, we support you, and we know the importance of and of what you do.

Hung Lee (38:49):

Yeah, absolutely. And that's actually I didn't cover this when earlier in the our conversation, Lauren, so thanks for reminding me. But of course, recognition is, is is such a big part of anybody's experience. I mean, you know, imagine doing like a huge amount of work and actually no one notices and some other person, you know, gets a big thank you. And then, you know, you are just, you just like slave away. Isn't that the, the recruiter's general, general sort of life, right? It's kind of a bit sad. So it's, it's interesting sort of how that is and how to reverse it. Maybe sort of a project or a campaign like this will be, will be one of those one of those things I'd be interested to know from the audience, actually, folks, if, like, how, how do you like recognize your recruiters?

(39:45):

Yeah. Is there, do you do something in your business? if you do, please do share in the chat. I, I'd be interested to know whether, you know, we could assemble a bunch of techniques or stuff that that might be useful. you know, I'm talking within the context of the company. We know, for instance, someone does a big sales deal, right? There's no question that person, not firstly, not only rerated for it, but everyone talks about it. Everyone says, amazing, yada, y yada ya, all this type of stuff. Okay. So what can recruiters do to what do recruiters need to be elevated in the same way? Is there something that we can do? let me know on the chat folks, I'd be interested to to see whether anybody's got any great ideas on that. okay. we've got some questions coming through, so I wonder whether we should shift a little bit to those. That

Lauren Kordalski (40:35):

Sounds great.

Hung Lee (40:36):

Yeah, that's great. I'm nots. Yeah. Let's go to let's go to Tyler McEvilly. Tyler's asking, okay, is the goal to eliminate those late nights and early mornings for recruiters, or always be a part of, oh, someone's saying the chat is disabled. Okay. But I wonder whether we could the chat but anyway, let me just complete the conversational question. Sorry about that, sir. Is the goal to eliminate those late nights and early mornings for recruiters, or will that always be part of the experience?

Lauren Kordalski (41:11):

Yeah, great question. And I think this is something that we touched on earlier that I touched on earlier, a little a little bit. I mean, again, recruiting is a human experience and humans are busy creatures. And I think, I mean, I think we know as recruiters, there's always going to be times where we're getting on a call in the evening to connect with somebody after they've finished working their current job, or we're connecting with them earlier for the same reason. But I think we can give recruiters more time back, and so perhaps they're not as slammed during the day, and so they have the bandwidth and the energy that evening to hop on. I think the, like, being realistic, I think that's always gonna be part of the recruiter experience, but I think we can make it better. so I, I know that's what we showed in the video, Faye waking up to a text or a, a message about about her role and then going to bed doing the same. I think we can make it better. We have lives as well, recruiters it would be awesome to be able to, to, to free up our time. That's

Hung Lee (42:26):

The radical, radical solution. Lauren, I wanna introduce an idea to you. I, I don't think recruiters should work normal times at all. yeah, I don't, well, like, why are we in there nine to five? Like, why is that our core time? Because exactly as you say, we need to speak to people before they're working working hours. We need to speak to 'em after working hours very often on the weekend also. So I think we should just like literally reconfigure our time to that effect. So our court hours should be, I don't know, seven till nine in the morning. You take a big break obviously the lunch, maybe we come in, do two hours, yeah. And then evening, why don't we do two hours there? And then we just have big blocks of, you know, free time elsewhere outside, because we may not be able to contact candidates at that point. you know, we should simply have a different sort of order of how we work. What do you think folks, <laugh>? what do you think, Lauren?

Lauren Kordalski (43:19):

I, that is a radical solution, but I will say I feel the same way about the post office because they are open during business hours when the rest of us are working, and how are we supposed to make it there? So that's probably the case for many businesses, and I don't know how well that will be how well that will idea will be taken or implemented, but it's not a bad one. I think you make a really good point.

Hung Lee (43:47):

Yeah. It's it's very it's, it's one of those radical things that's hard to hard to handle, isn't it? So okay. We've got some other questions coming through. let's see whether we can talk about okay. we have actually a question from on the side bar there, which says, okay, how can I communicate to leadership and decision makers that the recruiting team is drowning? So here's a legit case where the Rex are just piling up there's more coming through. There's a perception in the business that yes, recruiters just need to pull extra time. How do you as a manager go ahead and renegotiate some space for the team? Do you have any tips for us on that, Laura?

Lauren Kordalski (44:27):

Yeah, and I, I think this ties back to, to what we what we chatted about earlier as well, which was being communicative, perhaps having a leadership meeting where you have the opportunity, everyone has the opportunity to share, these are the needs on my team, this is how it's impacting my team. These are the priorities, including the, the talent team. and so really just level setting with other functions of the organization and challenging them to prioritize their roles. And then also do we need more people or do we need to be, do we need more technology or do we need to equip our team members with new skills so they can be more effective in their responsibilities? I think it's a larger conversation and one where talent team members, I think hopefully should feel empowered to ask those questions, to really get down to the heart of the problem, because throwing people at an issue isn't always the solution. So it's an opportunity for us to unpack what's going on in other areas of the business and, and hopefully I'll collectively make a decision moving forward about priorities for the organization.

Hung Lee (45:40):

Yeah, I, I think actually that's one of the, the, the ways in which you can do it is to present it in terms of trade offs, you know? yeah. So in other words, you can default to, yes, let's accept, that's in our cultural DNA that we're gonna say, yes, sir, more than more than no, sir. You know? Absolutely. However, what we can say is, look we can help you do this according to your level of urgency, but what this means is we tho roles BC and D that you also want us to work on. We're gonna have to revisit two weeks down the line. Is that something you're happy with? So, present something not as a constant yes. Where you're trying to ingest everything but trade it off. It's like, listen, our team are maxed out. You know, as a, as a leader of a recruiting function, you know that the, the, you can still, you can keep saying yes to more re but it means that your team's getting crushed.

(46:32):

you need to push that back to the point where the, the, the business recognizes there's gonna be a tradeoff, and the tradeoff is gonna be okay, there's gonna be less candidates on the short list per roll end, or the roles that you otherwise wanted to deal with are gonna have, you wanna have to default a little bit in this way, or all other types of things that you can kind of introduce to say there is some sort of cost to the ask. and that's a standard negotiation. and it's just a reflection of, of reality which I, I hope managers will be sensitive to. okay. more questions to sorry, Lauren, you gonna say?

Lauren Kordalski (47:06):

Yeah, I just wanted to say quick reminder to to attendees. So the chat is just for the host, but the q and a is for everyone. So if you see the q and a button down at the bottom with two chat bubbles, that's where you can pose your questions or just share your feedback. We'd love to hear from you all as well. so you do have access to submit questions. It's just in the q q and a function versus the chat.

Hung Lee (47:32):

Okay, cool. there's there's really interesting question on the sidebar there too where they're talking about how, how intensively does the team use its own products? and I guess you have to, don't you, I mean, you've, you obviously believe that it works. but are there ways in which you know how to use paradox that other people might not because of your intimacy with product and you know, what the, the, the potential that it can sort of provide for the business?

Lauren Kordalski (48:11):

Yes, it is such a treat using our own product for, because candidates have the ability to experience Olivia and also many times express that they have a positive experience and have this enthusiasm coming into interviews with us. I mentioned earlier, I can't imagine recruiting without Olivia. I have, I admit I've been spoiled. but it's been such an awesome experience being able to advocate for the product internally, cuz we're representing our own talent team, but also our clients and sh so sharing feedback, sharing the realities of recruitment, and so we create a product that really serves the champions of talent, is is a responsibility that we take very seriously. And to answer your question we, we do use our own products. So anyone who's interview or applied for a job with Paradox has chatted with Olivia, the scheduling tool is my favorite because the ease of use is in incredible, it's unmatched. and then we've also, we also, I mean, we use a full suite of, of products, so I mean, I think there's a lot that folks don't, might not be privy to in terms of Olivia's capabilities. and so even with us, we we're releasing new products and updates all the time, and so the product is always improving. so it's been really awesome for our talent team to, to drink our own champagne, which I've learned is a better term than eat our own dog food.

Hung Lee (49:44):

Eating, eating dog food is probably truer though, isn't it? not a great

Lauren Kordalski (49:48):

Visual, but yeah. <laugh>,

Hung Lee (49:50):

No is, is another way to think about it, which is a follow on to this Lauren. But has it been like a product innovation within Olivia that was discovered through your internal team's use of, of, of, of Olivia or your internal sort of operations and what was that? And tell us a story behind that.

Lauren Kordalski (50:08):

Yes, absolutely. I will say this happens on a regular basis. I I, I'm thinking a couple years ago there was, so this was early days. I was using a, a different recruiting system, and I a resume was included in a way that I thought was really efficient in the message that I message that I received from this from this other technology. And so I submitted a ticket, sent it over to our engineers and said, Hey, can we make our product work like this instead? It's much more efficient for the recruiter experience, and the next day it was completed, which I will say our team moves quickly. This was a, a, a uniquely quick turnaround time. but again, it was really early on, so I think we had had the bandwidth to move fast and, and still do, but that was an experience that I had where I was I saw how quickly the team responded to the the suggestions our team has and, and they still do so today. So it's happening on a constant basis. I know our talent operations team works really closely with product and engineering to be the voice of talent professionals and make sure our product is, is working for, for us and for them.

Hung Lee (51:30):

Yeah, that is fantastic. okay, we've got another question coming in here from Devash, I hope you don't mind if I reinterpret the question a little bit. but Devash is talking about certain types of traits that you look for in a recruiter, and I wonder whether this is another way in which we could think about experience, because sometimes if you put a person in the wrong job or the wrong career track they're gonna have a miserable experience irrespective of the things that you might otherwise do. They're simply not the right sort of character set or for the role very broad SROs, but how would you, what kind of traits do you look for for recruiters in your team, and why do you think, you know, those people are, are gonna be best fit for the type of business that paradox is?

Lauren Kordalski (52:19):

Yeah, absolutely. And, and thanks for sharing Devash. It's I think the things that you're looking for make complete sense. I love above average above intelligence to deal with ambiguity. So that is something that is that is a good characteristic for recruiters to have. I think a high level of emotional intelligence is important and the ability to manage different relationships with folks at different levels. So we're speaking with candidates, hiring managers, sometimes senior leaders and then managing, of course, those conversations with employees who are sitting next to us saying, when are you gonna fill this role? I'm drowning. So being able to, I think, have flexibility in your communication style with all of those different stakeholders is important. And then I don't know what the, the right word is for this, but it's a, it's a delicate role. It's, it's, we're talking, you know, we're working with candidates talking about their livelihood and sometimes not move. I mean, the, I think we all know the worst part of recruiting is not telling someone, we're not moving forward. And so having that kind of sensitive, thoughtful approach and making sure everyone has a positive experience regardless of the outcome is, is important as well. And some of those things are innate and some of those you learn over time. but I'll, I just, you know, to add a few to what's been shared in the chat, I think those are some, some important characteristics.

Hung Lee (53:55):

No, and I think that's that's actually a really good way to kind of bring our conversation to a close, which is, you know, we care about the recruiter experience but it's important for us to also understand our, our, our recruiting of the right people to our teams. Yeah. will really help with this. because sometimes when we are the disrespect the role you know, we over recruit recruiters sometimes, or, you know, we, we reach the folks that we think, you know, because they worked with that company, they must be amazing. I have a think really of the traits that you wanna have within your recruiting team and, and recruit against those traits because that's gonna help in the end to build a sort of recruiting culture that's, that's gonna improve the recruiting experience for the recruiters which is you know, a key part of of, of hiring success for the overall business. Laura, let me leave you the final question. what, what is next for the champions of talent campaign? I know that this is something that all of paradox is very much sort of behind, especially the TA team itself. what can you tell us what the the, the, the roadmap looks like for the next couple of weeks and months for for this project?

Lauren Kordalski (55:17):

Yeah, absolutely. Well, we have a number of other engagements just like this coming up with some folks from our team and some of our clients as well. So I only share one perspective, my, my personal perspective. So I would encourage anyone here to go and, and listen to others, listen to our clients listen to our other team members who, who can share their perspective as well. and I mean, there's, you know, of course we have the next few weeks of the campaigns, but also, not to sound cheesy, but we're gonna continue to be the champions of talent. I hope that this message is ongoing and this is just the start of a conversation about the, the folks who, who do the hard work, who serve our candidates, who serve their business by, by being the champions that they are.

Hung Lee (56:04):

Yeah, absolutely fantastic. And I look forward very much just seeing sort of where this goes and supporting it as we go through. So Lauren, thank you so much for sharing with us your time and your insights. It's really, really wonderful to get the inside view and a great way for me to, to, to, to launch this webinar series. With paradox. thank you very much Lauren, and thank you very much everybody for watching this webinar. Hope you enjoyed it. keep an eye out for the next one that's coming up. I think that's in the, in a couple of weeks only. and also remember to champion the teams that you're working with folks. this is a really tough job. we all need to give each other support. we all need to recognize the contributions and efforts that we make. and and yeah, we need to reenter the recruiter experience, I think just a little bit as we do the hard work that we do.

Lauren Kordalski (57:01):

Yeah, thank you all for the hard work that you all put in. And thank you so much, hun, for having me. It was such a treat. What a way to kick off my Friday morning. I appreciate the time.

Hung Lee (57:13):

Great time with you, Lauren.

Lauren Kordalski (57:15):

Thanks everyone. Bye everyone.

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